Electric bike ‘limits’…can we change the law?
The ‘Great’ Australian Collaboration
April 21, 2007Tourism Tasmania on ‘effective marketing’
April 22, 2007Here is a problem and what seems a sensible suggestion that should be considered by the ‘authorities’ if we/they are serious about emissions and sustainable development in all its dimensions……..
The PWF article ‘Melbourne to Sydney? An electric bike is ’suit-able’! has received a lot of attention, and the big ride is underway right now. There are over twenty assorted ‘bods’ tackling the ride and we have just received this thought provoking email, ‘cc’ed to www.goelectric.com.au, from polio victim and electric bike rider Ray Fealy:
“As an electric bike rider for the past 13 years (I designed and built my own, as there were none available commercially in Melbourne 13 years ago). I have learned a great deal about the feasibility of electric bikes – bikes with the LEGAL power limit of only 200Watt.
I have a disability and cannot use pedal power to assist. I cheated and bought a 250 Watt motor. Have you any idea as to how we go about getting the ‘Authorities’ to raise the power limit on electric bikes to say 350 Watt? If that was done we could travel up most of the common inclines on suburban roads even without pedal assistance.
I firmly believe that the greatest cause of unpopularity of the electric bike is its inability to cope with the average ‘steepish’ inclines encountered in suburbia. There are many people in the community like myself (Polio victim) who cannot pedal assist and therefore use the expensive and very slow electric wheelchair we see so often on roads and footpaths.
It is a simple matter to limit the speed of an electric bike to, say, 30K/Hr and raise power to 300-350Watt thus making it more acceptable to use on the roads. Batteries now in use would still give a good enough range (at least 20Km).”
If anyone can throw some light on this problem/suggestion, PWF would like to hear and so would Ray Fealy. You can contact Ray at rjfealy@optusnet.com.au and PWF editor@pigswillfly.wpengine.com.
40 Comments
Why not have no limit on motor size but instead focus on speed limiters…surely you could make some sort of electronic gismo that would make it imposable for the bike to go over 30 or 35 km an hour …the actual electric motor could be used as a brake
Need to get enough people interested to force change …the way the goverment is carrying on about climate change and putting a solar panel on every school roof you would think they would jump at something like this
I have no disability, I drive a car to work 30 km round trip each day – a falcon – 6 cyl – Melb suburbia, lots of BIG hills. I desparately want to change to eCycle and am very ready and eager to buy but I have researched and found that a 200W motor will NOT go up hills and therefore is NOT a viable, reliable alternative form of transport! I WILL NOT buy a 200W eCycle – no way! A 500W motor is what I am after – either the stupid law gets changed, or I will just purchase a 500W kit and retrofit to other cycle, so long as I ride within 35kmph who will know – beside the avid e-biker?
let’s lobby the government … i need some speed for the hilly place I live in 😀
cheers
I agree. motors should not be limited to 200 watts. I frequently get overtaken when riding my bike by other cyclists doing over 35km/h, so why shouldn’t we be allowed to travel using electric power at 35km/h ?. The law must change !.
hello all its about time we all wake up and do something about us being controlled way too much.we seem to be living in a communist country where they the government have gone toooo faaaar in putting the pressure on us as to even simple things in our already controlled lives .remember we pay too much taxes on all things. we as good citizens of this counrty do legally have the right to do something ,there are infinite nuber of ways we have been saying yes to everything they have been throwing at us the honest citizens, and a simplething like this is not asking too much is it now fellow citizens.people power can in numbers achieve things we need think its not that hard as the simle subject is only asking for a more powerfull electric bike motor that makes a persons life more easier. now if the law makers or as i call them now on dont care to help us citizens then they are selfish,greedy control freaks why we listen to them corupped so called leaders or law makers.i may be too extreme in my views but, please think hard everyone legally we let them do as they please i may be someone who has the guts to speak out
some of the law they make makes me sick no genuine reasons but money money money for them only. No fear life is short play hard as you want not how the dictators want you to !!!!! bye
I have recently been looking at the idea of travelling via ‘electric bike’ in city traffic. I have been to the local RTA of Victoria, to obtain more details. I have NOT seen any laws limiting the bike to 200 watts or maximum speed of 25 kmh. All one needs is a Car or Motor Cycle license.
Queensland is the only state in which a vehicle license is not required. I was under the impression, that even the basic electric Mopeds still require the rider to be licensed, in other states.
The newly released ‘Vectrix’ can travel at 100kmh, but costs $17,000.
EMC Australia will shortly be distributing some new models in the E-MAX range ; 140L, 110S, 90S. ( $3000 – $4000 ) The Engines are 1500w – 4000W, and can travel at 55 – 75 kmh. I would prefer to keep up with city traffic speeds, instead of being run over for being too slow.
Unless I am mistaken, a ‘200 watt’ motor is exactly the same as a ‘360 watt motor’, the Chinese manufacturer just slaps a different sticker on the side, to comply with the vagaries of the local bylaws. The rating of the motor just indicates what power it can handle before it burns out, right?
As I understand it, there are 2 different classes of electric ‘bike’ available and they’re treated differently under the law.
The first type looks like a pushbike with a battery and small motor. This kind of bike has pedals and the electric motor provides additional power when required. This is the kind of bike used in the Suit-Able Transport ride last year. As far as I know, you don’t need any kind of license (or rego) to ride one of these, but the downside is that in Australia the power of the motor is limited to 200W – which in my view is dismally inadequate. In the US, electric bikes of this sort (eg TidalForce) are marketed with 750W motors and don’t seem to be a problem.
http://www.myebike.com/bikes/iOfullspec.html
The second type of electric ‘bike’ is actually more like a scooter or moped. The Vectrix and EMC scooters fall into this category. Typically these aren’t pedalled but ridden like traditional scooters. Their motors have more power than the pushbike type and so they go faster. On the downside, though, they’re treated like petrol scooters by most Australian traffic authorities, so you need a license (type varies on your state – in the ACT you need a motorbike license) and rego to legally ride one.
Given that the scooter is probably a better commuter option – and considering the environmental benefits it offers – I’d have thought that State Governments could register electric scooters for a nominal fee.. like $2 a year or something..
Frankly, I think it’s time we started targetting Government taxes and charges to encourage people to choose more sustainable modes of transport, rather than buying a second car for commuting.
Cheers
.
Well said Dave, thanks for clarifying things.
I ride a cheap 200w electric bike and it’s not bad for short trips under 10 km each way. It would be nice to have more power…
I vote for a 750 watt power limit and a 40kph speed limit. That’s about 1 horse power. 1 horse per person, it’s only fair 🙂 A 750w motor gives hill climbing for all hills.
My next E-bike will have a 500w or 750w motor, who’s going to know?
I have heard something about the average adult male being able to generate about 300 watts when pedalling a bike, for about 5 to ten minutes, and up to 400 – 450 for maybe 15 seconds. Why then is the power limit for electric bikes only 200 watts in Australia? There are of course the usual political reasons… you pay far more taxes and charges if you drive a car or use public transport, and the powers that be are not about to make it easy for you to ride a bike and pay almost no taxes or charges whatsoever. There is also the fact that your average politician has not used a bike as real transport for many, many years, and if they do ride them they tend do about 15 – 20 km/h, on bike paths etc. They believe anyone who does anything more than that, especially on a road, is a reckless, irresponsible thrillseeker who should probably be fined and made an example of… they certainly should not be helped or aided in their misguided efforts. This is of course typical of late; the baby boomer generation has reached retirement age. This means that a massive proportion of society is now about 50 – 65 years old, which means that a larger proportion of society, all of whom vote, are now entering that conservative stage of life (sorry, but by and large it is true), when going a bit faster is only dangerous, nothing else. Its not more fun. Its not more productive. Its not more practical. It is not SANE! It is ONLY dangerous, and it will not be tolerated (tolerance is not a feature of conservatism either). How many politicians NEVER broke the speed limit when they were twenty years old (by a significant amount,say 40 kms)? How many NEVER tried to beat another car at the lights and ended up roaring off as soon as its green, likely exceeding the limit by a significant figure? How many NEVER screeched the tyres “just for the hell of it” and fishtailed the back end a bit? There are some, of course, but would every other politician please hand in their car or pay the appropriate fine at their nearest police station or where ever you do that kind of thing? As a voter, who has tolerance for the exuberance of youth, and negative views about the generally conservative direction we seem to be taking lately, I think it is OK for me to break these laws in my youth, but not get caught, and therefore “get away with it”. I don’t think a politician, particularly one who had a hand in crafting so called “anti-hoon” laws, can say the same. If you are willing to confiscate someone’s car for driving like a “hoon”, a fairly radical step, I can’t undestand how you could do that if you know you did the same thing when you were young. Doesn’t matter if no one got hurt; most hoons today do not kill someone (neither with their driving nor any other way) and most don’t die in car accidents. And if racing another car is not acceptable, why are car manufacturers even allowed to mention the number of seconds it will take their newest sports model to get to 60, or 100? Why, for that matter, do “sports models” even exist? The answer is that cars can be exciting, and for young adults who have spent the last six or seven years counting the days until they could get their license, they can be exciting and alluring in the extreme. This is, in part, because some cars can go very fast, have tons of power, can burn rubber almost effortlessly. Young drivers love these things; its part of being young. And the fact is, NO ONE needs a sedan with a power output of more than 200 kilowatts; no one has that big a caravan, there are no hills in Australia that steep, requiring that sort of power to weight ratio. There simply is no way whatsoever to justify it other than “it’s awesome, the acceleration, that kick in the back…”. And so young drivers take the same attitude but with a willingness to actually use these types of cars for what they are intended to be used for; to scream off when the lights go green, burn some rubber, and beat your mate in his car because there’s no way he can get to 150 in less than 20 seconds… and their fathers’ generation sees this, and for doing nothing more than 18, 19 and 20 year olds have done since cars were invented, and that they themselves also did as a group or generation, take not just a young guy’s license (it usually is guys) which is a massive blow for most 18, 19 or 20 year olds, but also a car that may be worth $50,000, might be worth $5000. It is a variable fine, based not on the severity of the offence, but the value of the car you own(ed). Maybe we should base financial penalties on the finances of the offender, but if we do, we must do it for everyone, not just a small segment of society, whose actions and their consequences are real, but hardly hangable offences.
I apologise for going off on such a tangent; it was necessary in order to illustrate the ludicrous ways in which we are governed and the shameful reasons for which many of our laws are crafted. To get back to 200 watt electric bikes… Political self interest, the ability of politicians to say “this law is for your own good”, and the general public’s near total inability to see that this sort of thing is going on, all day, every day, with almost all of the laws that govern what you can do despite the fact that doing it won’t harm anyone, mean that we won’t get more powerful electric bikes; not as long as we, as a society, become so conservative, so mindful of “safety hazards” that road workers now need speed limits as low as those outside a primary school (makes a packet in fines, things like that, especially the way that 40 km “road work” limit starts about two k’s back from the roadworks and finishes at least a k past the last witches hat! I brought that up because it says a lot about how brazen the revenue raising nature of speed limits really is, and how accepting of such insulting transparency we have become, and that if this is happening in other areas of law and government (it is) then we have more to worry about than the wattage of personal electric transportation. Eventually, one of these sham laws will actually be dangerous, or make a situation more dangerous than it needs to be. Again, electric bikes… it is far safer to be able to do close to the same speed as general traffic. Think about it; if you can go as fast or almost as fast as traffic, then it is not so imperative that you be overtaken, and a source of “contact” between cars and bikes is gone, or almost so. Ever been going up a steep hill, standing on the pedals of the pedals of your bike for more power, swaying unpredictably from side to side, like some sort of amusement park obstacle for cars to avoid? Wouldn’t happen with a 400 watt motor helping. Ever fallen off the pedals of your bike while doing the same thing? A 400 watt motor will not have you going any faster on a flat than you currently go on a good down hill; it will simply enable you to go at that speed most of the time, and to do it in a way that makes the bike more stable, and able to follow a straighter line than when you are working like hell to go up a hill or to go at a decent speed. It would probably even lead to cyclists running red lights, because it doesn’t matter if you have to stop at a red light at the bottom of a hill and lose your runup for the uphill after the lights. And to get back to what I was talking about before, would it perhaps not be quite so exciting to get your license if, since the age of 12 or 14, you were allowed to ride a bike that was easy, faster on the uphills than a standard bike on the flat, and totally at your control; no waiting for parents to drive you somewhere, YOU had control. You might not be so captivated by “my own transport.. cool” if you had had some decent transport BEFORE you get the 200 kilowatt HSV.
So, to finish up I admire all of you who think that you have any chance of getting the law changed. They won’t change it because it is illogical,in that a person can develop more power than 200 watts. They won’t change it because it is unfair, in that it is your life, and whether or not you do something dangerous to you is no concern of anyone else (a 400 watt bike in the hands of a 14 year old is not a danger to anyone else, and if it is, then we need to ban human muscle power as well. They won’t change it because of the environment (although that is probably the best bet) because the younger people who would be riding them are the children of… that’s right, the conservative, all powerful baby boomers, and although they have belatedly found out that they’ve had a massive hand in killing the planet, putting their kids in “danger”, or exposing them to that sort of “high powered”, “dangerously fast” electric bike, simply so others can save a bit of CO2, well, there are limits to “this environment thing, you know”. They most definitely will not change them because of this lobby group or that interest group, nor even because of this website. (although if certain people don’t stop talking about using a 500 or 750 watt motor “because who’s going to know” then they will probably ban electric bikes entirely, so keep it to yourself for god’s sake! If someone else can’t figure that out for themselves, they deserve to ride a 200 watt bike!! It happened with the 200 watt petrol motors, for EXACTLY THAT REASON, so display some intelligence and THINK these things to yourself rather than trying to impress people with your devilishness!) No agitation for change will move an issue like this; it is just not big enough, does not have enough public support (or awareness for that matter). I know this because, as I said, it is actually safer to ride a bike that can at least make a show of keeping up with traffic. People have probably been killed as a result of falling off pedals and into traffic; certainly injured. The only people who will not be surprised by this post of mine are politicians; they know all of these arguments that I have outlined, including the safety aspects, but they don’t care, don’t want to know, as long as you’re driving when you could be “E-biking”, you are paying the wage of the service station attendant, who maybe would have been unemployed if you and a few others didn’t drive quite so much, and he is just one of thousands who might be agitating for a change himself if he were unemployed… a change of government, which is the only change that governments care about. And if a government really doesn’t care if a few people are less safe, as long as jobs are not lost and they stay in power, do you really think they are going to listen to a fairly small group of people who “want something done about some bike issue or something”?
We need to get away from the idea that democracy is perfect and the last form of government that we are ever going to develop. It is not perfect and I pray, far more fervently than I do for 400 bikes, that we realise it’s inherent faults and find a way of fixing them, or find another system. The problem with democracy is that it gives ordinary people access to real power. It is a drug, this power, and once you’ve had it you don’t want to let go. Heroin is nothing compared to it, if you are succeptible to it. We chide nations that have never had a peaceful and orderly handover of power from one elected government to the next, yet turn a blind eye to the actions of our governments who, although when they lose, they do leave, the way they fight to hang on to power (baby bonus is a great one; millions of dollars spent on advertising to tell us how great they are is another) may be less damaging to society as a whole, but that does not change the fact that they have hijacked a system that could have been, if not perfect, a good step towards it.
So, happy pedalling all.
It is legal to travel on a “power assisted bicycle”, providing the power output does not exceed 200 watts and the peddals are fitted/attached/functional. There is no speed limitation either for a “power assisted bicycle
There’s a lot of talk out there, but is anyone actually doing something concrete about this? I also want the laws changed and want to get the ball/wheel rolling. What would be the best way to make the laws change? Would lobbying the state (or even federal) government with a petition be the most effective? Can a prominent organisation take up the challenge? I don’t think the media would be that interested, but it could be worth a shot. Even writing letters to the relevant ministers is probably a good start. I’ll start there. Who wants to join me?
Rather than limiting the power of the motor, the law should allow for more flexibility with power, but impose a speed limit. Devices exist for cutting off the motor when traveling higher than a certain speed, and they are used and required by law in many states in the US.
Either way, i still use a 360W motor. The cops can’t tell the difference, and my next motor will be 500W.
All this aside, it is possible to convert a conventional petrol powered car to 100% electric for around $5000.
I bought a 200W front wheel conversion kit for my mountain bike a month ago, and am more convinced than ever that this is the next logical stage in GG reduction.
Charging from the grid also has the benefit of multiple sources of generation – wind, solar and so on. The electricity supply is likewise more amenable to pressure from state and Federal parliaments, unlike the oil oligarchy, which only responds to consumer demand.
As for the ebike – without pedalling, it does 33 km/h on the flat, for about 35 km. With pedalling, 42 km/h for more than 50 km (around inner Melbourne).
This is more than enough for the average commute, and has the added benefit of negating the pain of hills along the way.
For maximum range, however, it is best to travel at around 25 km/h, with pedal assistance. Any faster, and the power goes into defeating air drag, and so is wasted.
For my money, 200W is enough for the hilliest average commute, as long as you average around 20-25 km/h, throttling off on the flat, and coasting down hills.
And all for 1/100 (per passenger) of the power of a family car!
Yes, 200w isn’t enough for taking off much less climbing hills; and we need to use around 500w on bikes. But as long as you’re not travelling faster than the car speed limit, who’s going to know the power output?
You can legally drive a car on the road with 500kw+, as long as you don’t go over the speed limit, and they’re not electronically governed for top speed are they? E-Bikes shouldn’t have any other restriction than staying under the speed limit for the road you’re on… MAYBE that they should be limited for people with drivers licenses (18+)…
I’m presently building a tadpole recumbent that I plan to electrify. From everything I hear a 200 W motor is just not going to cut it. I’ve been looking at the Cyclone motor kits out of Taiwan (http://www.cyclone-tw.com). It seems that the 250 and 500 W kits are the same but have different controllers. So why don’t I just get a 500 W motor and controller and lie, cheat, and knowingly commit a criminal act by labeling it as a 200 W? Really, is’nt that civil disobedience of the best kind. Breaking the law for good? What would Ghandi do? I think he would have slapped a 200 W sticker on his green machine. I mean, what is some Queensland cop going to do? Whip out a magic gizmo and check out the Wattage on my ‘bent? I don’t think so. I’m for civil disobedience and I’ll also support any change in the laws.
More power to YOU.
The trouble with changing the laws is that they can swing both ways.The media in Sydney has already labled electric bike riders as drunk drivers who have lost their licence an shouldn’t be on the road.
Yes I agree with 300 to 500 watts as any one who has ridden a Gia Carlo up hills would.Maybe by changing peoples perception of this type of transport,the powers that be would have to change with them and rethink the laws,but with that would also come the possibility of a new road tax aimed at electric transport.Afterall there is both Fedral and State Governments that will lose out if more electric bikes were on the road and less petrol was being sold.
I love my bike and have so for 5 years it has taken me to and from work each day rain or shine,when this bike dies I will buy another 1.
I am looking to bring an Electric bike back to Australia. It looks like most of the manufacturers produce motors greater than 200W. I will likely buy a 250W bike and use it for Commuting in Aus, regardless of the 200W restriction.
I want to do my bit for GHG reductions. I’d like to be legal.
Make the limit a lot higher. i.e 700W. It’s crazy having such a low limit. We are limiting our ability to move from Oil dependance.
Good comments too guys. It’s great to see so many people want to make a difference.
This is what I want, an electric bicycle which gets me around (shops, work, etc) with enough power to go uphill and the distance. Currently I live in Sydney 21st century and the law makers of this country still live in the last century. The RTA does not want to share the power, they want to keep it to themselves therefore we are only allowed to ride electric bicycles which have less power than my hair dryer. By the way this is my dream site/bicycle. http://www.estelle.de/e/fahrradmodelle.asp
I am so desperate for an ebike that isn’t made in China ready to fall apart at any time, with a battery that doesn’t run out due to faulty workmanship! Allow us riders the freedom to go up hills with some decent power! I go as fast downhill on a normal bike as I would with electric power. So why the restriction? Time to change the law people!
Here’s a link to info about the USA 750 watt / 20 mph regulation: http://www.pleiades-enterprises.com/images/New_Electric_Bicycle_Law_in_the_USA.doc
Interesting discussion. I believe the Cyclone Kits, because they use the bikes gearing, make far better use of the 200w limit.
Has anybody used the Shimano Nexus internal geared hub with the Cyclone Kit? I believe this would make a very efficient system
Don’t panic too much as E-Bikes do have a big future its just that the mainstream does no realise it yet! Although once they do then we will be in for over regulation.
Some interesting comments – but it’s been my experience in the PR sector that has shown time and time again, that to influence change you need to have a pro-active media. Start with the green media, validate your aspirations, then move on to the mainstream TV / press starting with the breakfast shows.
Letters to Govt. Ministers seldom get past the first line of defence – some work experience lackey who has been instructed to send “the standard reply” – if you want to target a Govt Minister, then put them on the spot – eg major demo, frustrating door stops, highly publicised embarrassments (family support change but you don’t sort of thing)
I have been riding my e-scooter for over 2 years and without exception the comments are positive – “the way of the future” etc. We all know it’s going to happen, but who is the brave pollie going to be support any alternative to burning nice taxable fossil fuels?
I’ve just been researching these electric bikes as i’m considering getting one as i can’t afford a car and the costs to run a car both financally/environmentally.
Great to hear what people have to say. I think i may wait til there’s more ooomph in the power as i can imagine the smaller wheels will make cycling tougher up those hills regardless until more power is granted.
Just wondering if there are any plans to make alterations to the design so a child carrier or child trailer (i think its called) can be fitted on the back. Something like normal bicycles have available. Or even a side bike like motor cars have side cars, although there may not be enough room on footpaths.
Australia has a 200watt legal limit, but many commerically available hybrid push /electric bikes are available in popular motor power ratings of 250watts, 450 watts, 750 watts and 1000 watts (1 Hp)for other countries.
Some Aussie owners in hilly parts of Oz just swap the legal motor for a 750 or 1000 watt motor, the more powerful motors have saved many lives over the years as they allow the rider to get out of the way of danger quickly and safely due to their high torque and acceleration, its often better to be in breach of a poor regulation and alive rather than dead and legal.
I don’t think we can say having more power can get you out of a situation faster. It is usually the power that gets you in trouble. I ride a 1000c motorbike which is a massive overkill for my commute. The power is more likely to get me in trouble then get me out of it.
The limit needs to be changed to 500w. I’m seriously thinking about buying 1 shortly for my 80km commute (round trip). Who knows if it is illegal.
I’m quite capable of riding 35km/hr for over an hour. I want something to help me go that speed over hills as well.
As far as upgrading your motor above 200w. There’s a court case pending on the Sunshine Coast where a guy did just that and had an accident. The scooter was seized and is currently being tested re it’s output.
There is a lot of talk about raising the legal limit and I think that is a good idea. However the cards we are dealt with are not really that bad at all. A 200w geared motor will still give you the help you need to get up a decent hill. The main effort involved in riding a bike is in getting it started and going up hills – that is where the electric motor helps. On level ground and down hills you don’t really need much help. I would suggest to anyone who is put off by the 200w limit to test ride one – you may be surprised at how much help it really gives you. My main concern about illegally upgrading is the liability if you have an accident – as the guy on the Sunshine Coast is no doubt thinking right now.
If you want to solve an Aussie problem (hills), use an Aussie invention. The eLation System is Australian designed and took on the approach of smart design rather than brute force (picture a V8 in a mini here). Using a FULLY LEGAL motor system attached to a FULLY LEGAL bicycle the system allows the motor to use ALL gears on the bike, so a 27 speed bike has 27 gears available to the motor also. This gives awesome torque for hills and a top end speed of around 35kph, without pedalling. This eLation System is now being recognised as the system of choice for all terrain while staying legal.
The BFA web-site has a copy of the NSW RTA submission on changing the law. It looks like everything may change: http://www.bfa.asn.au/bfanew/pdf/publications/Power_assisted_bikes_NSW_RTA_paper_2008.pdf
James
I ride a 500watt Cyclone kit bike and it can handle a 22 mile round trip to work and back. The 24-volt Lipo4 10 AH battery will last the trip to work, where in is then charged for the ride home. I would say 10 percent on the commute is hilly and out of that 10 percent half of that is a gradient of 15-17 degrees. (One serious hill each way)
With the 500watt motor assisting on the hills and being used sensibly on the flats this setup works for me. I arrive at work in a condition to be able to work.
There no way 200 watts would be powerful enough.
If you’re worried about the law thing then you can fit an electronic 15 MPH speed limiter. Switch it on and off, who would know then.
Also when on open roads always appear to be cycling, so if you were stopped by the old bill you could say you trained with Lance Armstrong. An average cyclist could generate 300-350 watts of power; they could not prove you were not propelling the bike.
And finally every time I use the E-bike instead of the car I save FIVE POUNDS. So that’s five-pound less petrol, and roughly half of that not going to the government in rip off duty. (I drive a big car)
Cheers All
Jim
It seems pretty odd that our govenment and law makers are making such a big fuss about a wide range of environmental issuses such as reducing carbon emmission,tackling global warming, protecting the environments here and abroad, and yet here we have a cheap and healthy lifestyle change by simply allowing and encourage more people to ride bicycles instead of driving their cars (by allowing a more practical 500watt to 750watt motors)a move that is no doulb will be widely supported by our highly environmentally concious general public, and yet not a single political party/groups thought of that?? Where is our green party? where are the environmental lobbying groups? Wouldn’t it be more practical and easier to try and pressure the govenment to change laws that encourage people to ride more and drive less in order to reduce carbon emmission? Less cars more riders = less pollution, healier lifestyle, reduce obesity, cleaner air, saving money,better image … So when we try to tell the world how to protedt their environments we don’t look like a joke!
I’m in South Australia. I have a Vego 600W electric scooter which is illegal for me to ride in SA. Anyone want to buy it? It goes fine up hills – I rode it in ACT where it was legal.
hi i have a electric powered bike 200kw motor it should be up lifted. but i thought of a good plan has anyone seen those pocket bike they have a small engine well you put that on the bike but you leave the petal operation. i have a gio garla i live in de bay queensland and does fine. if anyone thinks it is a good idea email me and tell me what you think gibbsdamian@yahoo.com.au
I completely agree to raise the power limit for electric bikes from 200W to 500W but introduce a speed limit of about 32Km/h, same as the Canadian laws. This would make it easy to import from a huge selection of electric bikes and parts designed for North America, Asia and Europe. This kind of transport has a huge future potential of becoming one of the main mean of transportation in Australia. Electric bikes are very successful sellers in China and North America. The more relaxed electric bicycle laws in those countries make these bikes popular and it is certainly far more effective to save the environment. Most people do not want a hard work out to get around and the average travelling distance in Australia is greater than Europe and Japan. We also have a lot of long and steep hills in most of our capital cities. I don’t think it is really necessary to raise the power limit to 700W or even higher as some people suggested earlier and I believe that too much power put too much strain on some of the bicycle components and they are not really designed to handle so much extra power with more heavy batteries. It means the bicycles need to be specially altered and with this a lot of extra laws, guidelines and restrictions have to be written. It is better to leave higher power to registered electric moppets or scooters with a higher travelling speed and overall higher weight. A 500W motor easily reach the speed of 32Km per our and still have some additional power in reserve for some hill climbing. I admire people who are disregarding the current 200W limit and buy a stronger motor anyway, although they risk some nasty consequences. I would like to hear from anyone who already had a bad experience with the law. But I believe that they are doing the right thing for the environment and 200W power limit is ridiculous low compared to the electric bicycle limits in most other countries, especially for a widespread country like Australia. How can any Australian politician or government organisation even suggest that anything above 200W is unsafe and all other western countries are wrong? If they are serious about environmental protection then this law need to be updated soon. I believe there are enough statistics, recommendations and studies about the use of 500W electric bicycles. We need an electric powered transportation that is capable to travel almost constantly with little additional effort about 30Km/h most of the journey and easily swallow some hills. This is about the speed of a normal bike on a flat road or the average speed of buses or the average speed of cars on some inner city roads during peek hours. Australia population is growing very fast but the increase and usage of cars have to be limited in one way or the other to get a CO2 emission reduction. A car produces about 100 times more emission than an electric bike and on average there is only 1.5 people in a car each trip. Moving 1 to 2 tons of metal to carry a load of 120Kg is like filling a big spa pool with fresh water just to have your daily shower. I haven’t found any article about the danger of 500W electric bicycles or any negative report or impact study about electric bicycles themselves. Nobody is suggesting that the 500W power limit in any North American countries should be decreased and it’s one of the most effective ways to reduce CO2 emissions. I found an interesting article about new electric bicycles laws in New Zealand. http://www.btawa.org.au/~bta/citw/augsep05p3.pdf. Can anyone confirm that this is true? Does anyone have seen any negative feedback? Please let me know about this.
It makes me angry that the Australian government don’t really do enough to protect our environment and make life easier for greenies, cyclists and e-bikers. If you want to change the bicycle laws than you need to do much more than just writing letters to some gutless politicians. You need media attention and more active people interested in electrical bikes. I think it would be a great idea to start an electric bike club or organisation in some capital cities, to promote electrical bikes to the public, find and sign up active members, make some publicity in some news papers about electric bikes, fight for more bikeways, promote a higher output power, promote a battery standard for battery exchange and recharge stations Australia wide. Would be anyone interested to start or be a member of such a club? I gladly would be the first member of this club.
Firstly we need an organised ELECTRIC BICYCLE RIDE DAY with large scale media coverage..!!
I ride a Chituma 200watt Scooter type Electric Bicycle to work and back and to do shopping errands, picking up the dog food, banking, post office and many other local trips where it is just not worth the wear and tear on my car and wasting fuel to do such short trips. I can carry these things on my scooter E-bike.
I also wholeheartedly agree that 200watts is just not enough, not only for hills (where you could easily pedal a regular bicycle faster…) but also for take offs and right hand turns from traffic lights etc, where car drivers have to sometimes wait behind you before they get the opportunity to pass you as you make your turn.
My Chituma only does around 25kms an hour on flat road mand is fairly sluggish on take off when compared to a bike and also when the Battery level is a little low.
I also say 500 watts to 750 watts would be adequate to get you out of the way of other road users in a much safer fashion. We are not talking about super high power here. Previous motorcycle experience has helped me quickly get on the E bike, but the 200 watts is purely inadequate.
E-Bike users are only trying to DO THE RIGHT THING BY THE PLANET…!
The very smallest car uses more Co2 than at least 20 E-bikes..!
I Safely bet the State and Federal Govt’s will be taxing and ‘regulating’ these vehicles (registration/compliance etc..) and taxing the very people trying to help the Environment.
Mark my words it will be another GOVERNMENT CASH COW along with miniscule 6km/h speed Fines for traffic Cameras. It will probably go towards funding Politicians SUPERANNUATION !!
Why would they Tax something like an E-bike when there is no Registration on a regular bicycle..? At present with a little effort and fitness, a regular road bike is faster uphill, downhill and on the flat. I also ride a Road Bicycle.
The E-bike user is basically a person that has a conscience about the WORLDS FOSSIL FUEL usage along with present and impending GREENHOUSE GASES. We get to save a little money and help the ailing Planet we all live in. We actually CARE about the environment.
I can tell you it is much safer driving a car, which is what I may do if the Government and RTA over regulate these presently underpowered E-Bikes.
I have been using my electric bike (200w evs lithium conversion) in Melbourne to do a 40km round commute for the last 9 months. Over 2000km and still going. My bike gets a top speed of 35km not pedalling on flat ground which is pretty good but I still end up sweating even on the coldest days due to various hills, weight of luggage I carry ( i only weigh 72kg), and aim to maintain 27-30kmph average or thereabouts.
I am impressed and feel i made the right decision to leave my Landcruiser for the weekends but sincerely feel that for this technology to take the country by storm a higher wattage limit must be allowed as this will encourage less fit and older people to take the option seriously and allow for more practical commute times for people who need to travel decent distances. I speak to other ‘fit’ cyclists who average 35kmph by their own power. I am also cruising up to 60kmph simply rolling down a steep hill, so what gives?
I would love to try a 500w-1000w bike just to compare the difference. Anyone got a demo model?
I am suspicious of the moped style bikes as they do blur the lines between street legal and bike powered, so do to some degree understand the nsw/qld law rulings, but reckon the standard push bike conversion deserves to be in the spotlight far more than it currently is.
A rally to help the cause and feel more organisation will help promote the concept to people. Everyone I have gotten to get on my bike has been utterly impressed. Count me in!
QLD sucks sorry but it had to be said every time i try to do somthing I want to do for myself and not bother anyone elce its against the law council bylaws this local government that now they ban me using my homemade petrol 30cc bike that does at best 25kmph on the flat only for me to see someone hooting along on a geared up 200watt electric scooter doing 60kmph makes me so mad i agree with alot of comments lets make them speed limited and allow a choice of power options steam , alcohol , petrol , electric it shouldnt matter as long as its not to noizy (even then youve still got big motorbikes that are very loud ) and they are fine ….and yes speed limit the bikes to the same speed you can sustain pedling allong the flat and everyone should be happy id be interested to find out / support what we can do to get the QLD goverment to set better guidelines and regulations and bring back at least the option to legally use the gear you have bought / built .
We’re moving discussion on electric bikes and limits over to the latest post: Clarifying The Electric Bike Power Upgrade Discussion, a guest post from Craig B.